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5.8 Eighth conversation with both experts on 13 September 2011

Like the last time, the experts meet the subject in a large room at Ila prison and detention center. The Norwegian Correctional Services have approved that the visit take place without the use of a glass wall between the subject and the experts. As in the first conversation, there were three conference tables between the experts and the subject and two prison guards were present during the conversation. The subject showed up in transportation belts, with his right hand free.

The conversation lasted for nearly three hours.

The topic of the conversation is agreed to be the subject’s experiences in the time span from the moment he left the government building about half past three and for the rest of 22 July 2011. The time interval encompasses the time of the criminal acts.

The subject starts off himself by saying: «Terror» requires «conspiracy», so when the police are using the term terror, it proves they have arrested somebody else. Am pretty sure about that, after an operation or before.

About the time interval from the subject was driving from the government building until he was later arrested on Utøya, the subject says: I started driving after having plotted the coordinates on the GPS. The subject then gives a detailed explanation of the route he followed through Oslo, over Sollihøgda and to Utøya.

The target was more brilliant than the Labor Party itself, he says, but it was impossible to prepare mentally for the actual shooting. The primary targets for Plan B were Jonas Gahr Støre, Gro Harlem Brundtland and Marte Michelet. Now I could get one of them, and it was never meant to stop with her.

On the way to Utøya, the subject says that he was still in combat mode. I psyched myself up for a possible martyrdom, he says. I thought that after a major terrorist attack against the government building, it was natural if they sent a Delta squad to Utøya. Was surprised that they had not sent forces to Utøya to protect the island as a political target.

There was no one at the ferry landing to Utøya when the subject arrived, except civilian guards from AUF. The subject took out the bag he had in the car and pulled it on board the boat. The subject smiles. I had to deactivate myself, and resume being a sleeper cell again. I spoke to them, and infiltrated them. I pretended to be police.

The subject says he spoke with a woman who said she was in charge of security on the island. I asked her to summon the guards to a meeting where I would inform them about the bomb in Oslo.

The subject says he considered handcuffing or executing the crew of the boat. It was a huge tactical blunder to not carry out that, he says.

When the boat docked in Utøya, more people came. There was an ex-policeman who asked several questions. I assumed those were test questions because the act was exposed, the subject says. I suggested walking up to the main building, and both the woman and the ex-policeman walked ahead of me.

Right then, a minute lasted for ten years, the subject says. I was really not looking forward to taking lives. When I reached for the Glock, I had a lot of barriers, and almost was not able to do it. I shot both in the head. 90% of the shots were head shots. I am a good marksman, he adds.

The subject believes he had good ammunition management. I used lead bullets, he says, because they do the most damage. Both in front of me fell straight forward and looked like they were asleep on the ground. There were two behind me, closer to M/S Thorbjørn.

The experts ask what the subject thought about the victims. He responds, however, by talking about himself. It was a traumatic experience to take lives, he says. Taking another life is extreme. Have played a lot of computer games, but this is something purely biological that the body tries to avoid.

The subject elaborates by saying: The brain was under stress and began to erase memories actively. I only remember ten minutes of Utøya, but do remember the first «encounter» well. The experts ask whether this is terminology from war games. The subject answers: No, our working language is English. The brain was bombarded and access to the databases was gone. It was like a death threat and I felt I was in danger. It was a completely horrible situation.

The subject says that he knows that after this he kept going, he walked without stopping until he later surrendered. He repeats: Could not access my own databases. He smiles. When I think back, it is absurd, not normal. But I managed to behave tactically optimal, and carried it out.

The subject says he intended to herd the kids into the water, and use it as a weapon of mass destruction. The first target was indescribable, he says laughing, but I quickly became immune. When they swam, I was almost on autopilot and wanted to execute as many as possible. I was thinking about setting the main building on fire, because there were many who had barricaded themselves there.

Most on the island were over 18 years, the subject believes. The average age was probably 22 or 23 years. I thought about stopping half way through, but executed another 20 afterwards. The subject believes he shot and killed 40 people and that 29 drowned while swimming.

The experts ask what the subject was thinking as he was walking around shooting. He says: Had a pragmatic approach, wanted to kill enough to give the launch of the compendium world press. The operation was just a formality.

The experts ask if the subject compared the experience with playing computer games. No, he says, this was completely different. The games simulate war, I was in a real war. The games were perhaps a means to get the decision making capability trained, but now I had to force myself to go through a nightmare.

The experts ask again if the subject can imagine what the experience was like for the kids on the island. The subject says: We in the Knights Templar only think about making a pragmatic approach. We are forced to choose barbaric methods, we do not want to. All of the Knights Templar would prefer explosives rather than running around in the woods.

The subject repeats that it is the government’s war on terror that have cut off the militant revolutionaries’ access to explosives. We want to annihilate the enemy, he says. That day, I alone was leading a war against all the Western European regimes. I had the guts to do it alone. I felt traumatized every second, while blood and brain matter was splattering. War is hell, he adds.

Asked to elaborate on his role, the subject says: What is happening in Norway is an ethnic cleansing of my people. What happened was necessary, for people to open their eyes for what is happening in Norway and Europe. A person like me almost sacrificing his life for the cause is noble. There is nothing nobler than sacrificing oneself for your own people.

The subject smiles and laughs a little when the committee briefly comments that this may sound almost salvation-like. We want to forgive you, the subject says, those who condemn us who are performing the actions. He adds: We are willing to forgive everybody, even the traitors of type A and B if they recognize our efforts and our struggle.

The subject says: In 20 years, about 35% of the population will recognize us. I say it was a barbaric operation, but am very proud of the operation as a whole. My status will be changed, and although I am demonized now, it will become clear that I contributed to saving my people. I am prepared to be a martyr, with a noble role and noble motives. It will manifest itself in the future.

All in all the subject believes that his actions on 22 July 2011, gave 300,000 militant nationalists a tool for seizing power in England and Norway. He believes a network from the military or the police will seize power and save the country. Now there is an oil fund with billions that hide the symptoms of low intensity jihad. The civil war has different phases.

About nomenclature, content and concepts in his compendium the subject explains that the title contains the year 2083 because it marks the 400-year anniversary of the Battle of Vienna. The subject becomes very detailed and verbose and explains why the battle was a christian victory, which crushed islam at the gates of Europe. The subject says that the battle took place on September 11, 1683, and he would like to have September 11 as the new national day of Norway.

Spreading the compendium is the goal of the operations, he says, and the operation’s success is measured by the spreading of the compendium.

The experts ask how the subject will take it if the compendium flops. This I have obviously foreseen, the subject says. Analytically, I think 15 to 45% will agree with the main principles. The subject corrects the figure to 50%. Approximately half agree that Islam deconstructs Europe, he says, but the problem is that they do not read the compendium.

The subject says he knows with certainty that 300,000 militant nationalists have gotten the tool they need. The compendium is very well written, he says, but it is only intended as a draft. A gift to you. From us to you.

The experts ask the subject to elaborate what the gift consists of. The offer is crusader nationalism as a gift. The new nationalists in Europe are crusaders. Knights Templar are crusaders with several purposes. One: It is an organization for the interests of the indigenous peoples of Europe. Two: It is a crusader organization against jihad. Three: It is a war criminal judicial court that will trial and execute category A and B traitors all over Western Europe.

The experts again comment that the subjects phrases are reminiscent of salvation. The subject laughs: But we are the saviors, he says, we will free Europe of tyranny. We want others to open their hearts to us.

The subject says he has learned much from what he calls «Reverse techniques». Have studied the cultural marxists, he says. They infiltrate and want to deconstruct what is ethnically Norwegian, Norwegians and Norwegian values. The subject mentions Marte Michelet, Thomas Hylland Eriksen, and Hilde Haugsgjerd as examples of the most dangerous traitors.

Most journalists are multiculturalists, the subject says. This is why NRK is an important target. Volda University College is also a place where they are brainwashing aspiring journalists. And also the University of Oslo is infiltrated, and worst of all is the sociology program.

The conversation is ended.

Current status by both experts on 13 September 2011

The subject is awake, in clear consciousness, and aware of time and place and situation. Intelligence clinically assessed to be in the normal range. The subject uses numerical values ​​and percentages to a greater extent than is common in regular speech. He uses a technical, unemotional and not very dynamic language in the conversation.

He appears emotionally shallow, with complete emotional distance to his own situation and to the experts. He is polite and cooperates to the best of his ability. He laughs and smiles quite often, when related to issues concerning his own individual significance and/or his actions.

The subject has a light glaring look and blinks a lot. He appears with a somewhat reduced facial expression, and a somewhat rigid body language as he moves very little in the chair during the hours the conversation lasts.

The subject is unable to take his victims’, society’s or anyone else’s perspective. He can not describe or recognize his own or others’ feelings. The phenomenon is considered as a serious empathy failure, alexithymia, and egocentricity. He appears with a prominent emotional flattening.

He uses unusual terms such as targets, battle modus, execute, effectuate, ammunition management, «encounter», capitulation, infiltrate, and deactivate. The terminology used is entirely linked to the subject’s notion that there is a civil war, and considered as expressions of underlying, paranoid delusions.

In the conversation, the subject uses terms such as martyrdom, noble role, liberate, pardon, noble motives, sacrifice, gift and savior about himself and his deeds. The terminology used is in its entirety linked to the subject’s notion that he is to liberate Europe from tyranny, and that on 22 July 2011, he alone waged a war against all Western European regimes. The terminology used is considered as expressions of underlying, grandiose, and possibly religious delusions.

The subject believes it will become apparent that he through the murders on 22 July 2011 contributed to saving his people. He believes that his role is that of a martyr, with noble motives, and that his actions will give the militant nationalists a tool for seizing power in Europe. He believes that his organization, Knights Templar, has a mandate to act as a war crimes tribunal. The ideas are considered as grandiose delusions.

The subject says in the conversation that he was in a real war. He believes ethnic cleansing is taking place in the country. He believes that he was waging a war against all Western European regimes. He believes that there is an ongoing process where the cultural marxists are infiltrating, brain washing and destroying what is ethnically Norwegian. The subject has extensive thoughts on infiltration and underlying conspiracy among key figures in public debate and institutions. He believes that certain named individuals are traitors. The ideas are considered as an all-encompassing paranoid delusional system, with extensive thoughts of homicide.

The subject appears to have an unclear identity feeling, as he switches between describing himself in the singular and plural.

The experts have occasionally had difficulty in following the subject. He exhibits in parts of the conversation to have a moderate association disorder and formal thought disorder in the form of perseveration.There is no latency or thought block during the conversation.

The subject appears without depressive thoughts in the form of guilt, shame, hopelessness, or thoughts about his own death by suicide. He denies experiencing sadness, joylessness, reduced initiative or lack of initiative. There is thus no evidence of a depressed mood.

The subject does not exhibit increased psychomotorical tempo, or perceived, high mood. The subject’s speech is coherent and with normal syntax. He has no mind or voice strain. He is «affect stable». There is no evidence of lack of impulse control, neither verbally nor physically. There is thus no evidence of a high mood.

The subject appears without clinical suspicion of intoxication. The subject denies having suicidal thoughts or plans.

4.9 Ninth conversation with both experts on 16 September 2011

Like the last time, the experts meet the subject in a large room at Ila prison and detention center. The Norwegian Correctional Services have approved that the visit take place without the use of a glass wall between the subject and the experts. As in the first conversation, there were three conference tables between the experts and the subject and two prison guards were present during the conversation. The subject showed up in transportation belts, with his right hand free.

The conversation lasted for nearly three hours.

It is agreed that the conversation will be about the subject’s relations to his own family, his personal qualities, and thoughts about his own situation now. The subject was willing to do so.

[…]

The subject says that his own relationship with his mother is above average good. We’ve had some disagreements, he says, but those were minor issues, like when I quit high school before graduation. He says that he has talked a lot with his mother about devoting his life to the cause, and about writing a book. But my mother is a simple person, and no visionary, he says, and not so interested in such topics.

The subject directly moves on to talk about himself. I want to do something noble, he says. And the noblest thing is to improve humanity. We want to save our people.

The subject explains that because his mother is a woman, it is understandable that she can not fully understand his motives. Women do not understand honor the same way as men, he says. 90% of women are emotionally unstable. For the past million years, the women have been protected inside the camp. Men are more alert, and may make security decisions. Women should take care of the children.

The subject continues: Some people are noble, and save the tribe, he says. My mother thinks — what is wrong, and why? She cannot tell her friends that her son is a visionary who will save Western Europe. The subject says he had wished his mother was proud of him, but he considers this unlikely, since she gives in to public opinion. The subject says for this reason he does not want to have contact with his mother in prison.

The experts ask if the subject regards himself as a noble person. I can’t look at my people being raped, he says. I have sacrificed everything, wealth, freedom, my life. The subject is comparing his situation with that of Tsar Nicolas the first. He attempted to liberate Europe from Islam, he says. He risked everything for his people, but failed to liberate Anatolia. He was the last great crusader in Europe. The subject then compares his situation with Richard Lionheart’s.

The subject then summarizes how the Crimean War, the Armenian Genocide, and Hitler’s rise to power are interrelated. It is difficult to follow him, and the committee ask him to explain.

It’s about the motive, he says. I did not personally profit from what has happened, but have sacrificed all for something greater than myself. The subject thinks that 120 million individuals will look at him as noble, and a hero, mind you if they know my motives. But many have problems understanding it, like you, and my mother.

The subject continues. Many nobles must suffer, he says. Many have died already. We act according to our conscience.

The experts ask the subject to explain what qualities he has that have made him who he is. The prerequisites are to be intelligent and resourceful. I have never been a victim, and have had a good childhood, he says. I am a good person, do not lie, and am kind. I act upon my conscience. And I am particularly willing to sacrifice my own interests. The subject estimates his intelligence in IQ points to be about 130.

The experts ask if the subject believes he possesses special qualities beyond this. The subject says: I am extremely ambitious and a risk pervert. I value honesty and loyalty highly. I’m elitist, among the intellectual elite on the political right. He adds: Humility and modesty are also important virtues. He sums up: I do not know of a more perfect knight.

The subject also says that he considers himself as pragmatic, with too much empathy, and with a lot of determination and firm principles. Still, the most important prerequisite is my love for my people, he adds.

The subject says he has struggled hard to become the perfect knight. Am perhaps the most perfect knight after world war two, he adds.

The experts ask what the struggle has consisted of. You need 500,000 kroner and two years of your life, he says. Then you follow step by step the revolutionary science in the «How to Guide,» the compendium, which is a handbook of knighthood. It has never been done before, but now it’s proven. It is a small organization with limited resources, but possible.

The experts ask if the subject believes he has qualities others do not. The subject smiles. There is no term for it, he says. But I know the truth which is hidden from others.

The subject is asked to assess his own status and position now. The subject says: I consider everything in light of the operation’s success. It is a great «moral boost», and a huge «ego boost» for me. Valuable right wing intellectuals are in short supply, he says, adding: Have nominated myself as the leader of the conservative guardian council.

The experts ask for an explanation to this. Let’s say that militant nationalists take over Britain, he says. Then chances are that I will be released, even though I have much blood on my hands. A conservative guardian council will be appointed for Norway, and I can have a major role in the new board. Maybe chairman or leader.

The subject says that he has intellectual qualities that make him suitable to be an ideological leader of our pan-European organization.

The experts ask whether it is to be understood that the subject thinks he will be released. I’m 100% sure that it will be happen ​​within 15 years, at least in 2083, at the 400 year anniversary of «The Battle of Vienna». But it does not matter who is to lead, the key is the liberation of my people, he says.

He adds: If Labor refuses to change ideological direction, more attacks will happen. We, the Norwegian resistance movement, offer immunity up to January 1 2020. After 1 January 2020, all the 4,500 A and B traitors will be executed. The 90,000 C-traitors will be executed after that.

The subject emphasizes that the organization Knights Templar is currently the only one in the association of organizations he describes as the Norwegian resistance movement. But more will emerge in the time up to the capitulation, he says.

The experts ask what the subject means with the term capitulation. The subject explains: We demand the immediate dissolving of Parliament, he says, and the Western European royal families will have to capitulate. We will get access to NRK, make a new army to be called in, and we will establish a guardian council.

The subject says he is very close to perfection now. Am in the last phase. Using the term «noble», depends on the sacrifice you have done. Have sacrificed my life. The deed is essential. I have cleared a path. Am stronger than most, and have been a sleeper cell for so long. On Utøya I thought about self-terminating, but I am strong enough to suffer on. Phase III is the trial, and phase IV is the martyr death. I’m only a tool for the militant resistance movement.

The experts say it remains unclear how the subject assesses his position in Norwegian society now. Thousands of militant nationalists let themselves be inspired by me being alive, he says. I alone carry the fury on my shoulders. It signals strength to all the militant nationalists in Europe.

The experts commented that it may seem like the subject regards himself as a significant person. The subject laughs heartily. This is the role model for our ideology, he says. I am a leader by example. A noble act that can be copied. The deed is in the sacrifice. The compendium is the project, not the killing. I managed to distribute both the movie and the compendium, he says, adding: I am probably somewhat of an attention whore.

In 2083, muslims will account for 60% of the population, he says. This will be the year of victory, and then the Muslims will be deported. What is happening now is a much greater threat than world war two. Islam is a much greater threat than nazism was. We are only three people in Norway now, but there are 60,000 sympathisers. Now we are in phase I, low intensity asymmetric civil war. In phase II, the war is escalated.

The subject says he is sure that after the attack there will no longer be three, but thirty single cells in the national resistance movement in Norway. He says he knows that the operation has had such an effect, and justifies this by saying that he is rarely wrong.

The experts wonder how the subject is able to quantify this so precisely. The number of single cells can be quantified on the basis of historical knowledge, the subject says. I give good estimates. He adds: The compendium is so good, and the essays are so good that they will influence others. A ten-fold increase in Europe.

The experts ask if the subject is open to the possibility that others view his actions on 22 July 2011 as a political or ideological failure. No, the subject says. The operation was a recruitment operation, so it is not possible. Armed combat is considered the right thing, whatever that is visible in the short term. Within two to ten years, this is a success story.

The experts ask what success criteria the subject will consider in the future. New attacks on cultural marxists are a success, he says. And if moderate cultural conservatives get it easier, that is a success. It could for example be that the Progress Party got into power in Norway. The subject starts talking in we form. We are looking for success in both in the UK and Norway, he says. It’s us or Islam. We are 100% confident of victory.

The experts ask how the subject would consider it if his compendium does not contribute to the recruitment of new, militant nationalists. The subject reminds the experts that the Knights Templar is also a military court. Those who died were legitimate targets and deserved to die, he says. It will in any case be a success.

The subject adds that he is prepared to become character assassinated. It will be like the war tribunals in Norway after world war two, he says. Norway’s Minister of Justice and Hamsun and many in the Nasjonal Samling were locked up in lunatic asylums after the war. The war tribunal was masked and manipulated. The losers lost their power of definition. I am prepared for the same.

The subject summarizes: As long as more than twelve were executed, the operation will still be a success. The experts ask how the number twelve comes into consideration. Twelve dead are needed to penetrate the censorship wall, he explains. We expect a short-term setback, but have taken many giant leaps forward for the militant cultural conservatives. I have given them a tool, and now they can live in the same way as the islamists.

The experts ask how the subject’s single cell logic is working now after 22/7/11. I have had contact with others along the way, he says, but all the decisions were my own. I was alone about the execution of the operation. My identity is now known, and I will be very disappointed if militant nationalists regard Utøya as cowardly. But I do not see it as cowardly. I did what I could to attack Labour’s yearly convention, but I did not make it. So I am proud of the AUF operation.

The experts fail to find out how the subject may have communicated or will communicate with other single cells in his organization.

About his thoughts on the Utøya killings now, the subject says: The goal was to execute as many as possible. At least 30. It was horrible, but the number had to be assessed based on the global censorship limit. Utøya was a martyrdom, and I am very proud of it.

The subject says he called the police when he thought that the operation was completed. He says that at the time he called, he did not believe he could find more targets, and I had been searching a long time. Despite the fact that he called to surrender, he continued shooting after having hung up. He says: I introduced myself as the commander of the Norwegian resistance movement, and was of course counting on that those who answered would understand who I was.

The subject surrendered when he was asked to. The experts ask what made ​​the subject wish that his martyrdom would end with his own survival. Phase III, my own trial, is important for our cause. I am willing to accept the sacrifice, he says.

The experts ask again if the subject has had any thoughts about how what happened on the island appeared to the participants of the summer camp. There were no civilians there, the subject says. Those who were there were marxist activists, who are on the execution lists for our organization. In his descriptions, the subject is not able to take neither the dead’s nor the surviving teenagers’ perspective.

Present status by both experts on 16 September 2011

The subject is awake, in clear consciousness, and aware of time and place and situation. Intelligence clinically assessed to be in the normal range. The subject uses numerical values ​​and percentages to a greater extent than is common in regular speech. He uses a technical, unemotional and not very dynamic language in the conversation.

He appears emotionally shallow, with complete emotional distance to his own situation and to the experts. He is polite and cooperates to the best of his ability. He laughs and smiles quite often, when related to issues concerning his own individual significance and/or his actions.

The subject has a light glaring look and blinks a lot. He appears with a somewhat reduced facial expression, and a somewhat rigid body language as he moves very little in the chair during the hours the conversation lasts.

The subject is unable to take his victims, society’s or anyone else’s perspective. He can not describe or recognize his own or others’ feelings. The phenomenon is considered as a serious empathy failure, alexithymia, and egocentricity. He appears with a prominent emotional flattening.

He uses unusual terms such as commander, security decisions, liberation, resistance, immunity, and capitulation. The terminology used is entirely linked to the subject’s notion that there is a civil war going on in the country, and considered as expressions of underlying, paranoid delusions.

In the conversation, the subject uses terms such as martyrdom, death, perfect knight, visionary, noble, and suffering about himself and his tasks. He compares himself with the historical war and knight heroes like Tzar Nicholas and Richard Lionheart. The terminology used is entirely linked to the subject’s notion that he, through his actions on 22 July 2011 sacrificed himself, and is considered a hero. The terminology used is considered as an expression of underlying, grandiose delusions.

The subject believes that he is a perfect knight. He believes that he has been nominated as head of what he calls the conservative guardian council, who will rule the country after taking power. He believes that he is suited to be an ideological leader of a pan-European organization. He knows he will be released. He believes he is rarely wrong, and has extraordinary capabilities. He believes he is a leader by the power of his example and that his deed is in the sacrifice he has made. The ideas are considered as grandiose delusions.

The subject says in the conversation that he knows the truth that is hidden from others. He believes that there is a civil war in the country. He believes he had to kill at least twelve, because there is a censorship-wall preventing an open debate about what is happening in the country. He believes that the war tribunal after World War II was masked and manipulated and compares his situation to that. The ideas considered as an all encompassing, paranoid delusional system.

The subject appears to have an unclear identity feeling, as he switches between describing himself in the singular and plural.

The subject makes several threats during the conversation. He says that there will be more attacks, and that up to 90,000 traitors will be killed unless Labor does not change its politics. The ideas are considered as extensive, homicidal thoughts.

The experts have sometimes had difficulty in following the subject. He exhibits in parts of the conversation to have a moderate association disorder and formal thought disorder in the form of perseveration. There is no latency or thought block during the conversation.

The subject appears without depressive thoughts in the form of guilt, shame, hopelessness, or thoughts about his own death by suicide. He denies experiencing sadness, joylessness, reduced initiative or lack of initiative. There is thus no evidence of a depressed mood.

The subject does not exhibit increased psychomotorical tempo, or perceived, high mood. The subject’s speech is coherent and with normal syntax. He has no mind or voice strain. He is «affect stable». There is no evidence of lack of impulse control, neither verbally nor physically. There is thus no evidence of a high mood.

The subject appears without clinical suspicion of intoxication. The subject denies having suicidal thoughts or plans.

4.10 Tenth conversation with both experts on 20 September 2011

Like the last time, the experts meet the subject in a large room at Ila prison and detention center. The Norwegian Correctional Services have approved that the visit take place without the use of a glass wall between the subject and the experts. As in the first conversation, there were three conference tables between the experts and the subject and two prison guards were present during the conversation. The subject showed up in transportation belts, with his right hand free.

The conversation lasted for nearly three hours.

It is agreed that the conversation will be about a video the subject posted on the website YouTube, the subject’s mental and physical health, and consumption of drugs. The subject was willing to do this, but initially wanted to give the experts a briefing on the last detention meeting he attended. The detention meeting took place on 19 September 2011.

The subject says about the detention meeting in Oslo District Court 19 September 2011: Lots of interesting things are happening. As commander of the Norwegian resistance movement, I want to be tried by a military court. The subject justifies this by saying that Labor looks at us like terrorists. The subject says he tried to promote his views at this detention meeting, but was interrupted.

The subject says that he has been given access to a new activity room by his cell, where he has access to a treadmill. I am a bodybuilder, the subject says, I do not run. The prosector has «washed his hands» by offering a treadmill. It appears that the subject prefers physical activity by brisk walking in the prison yard, where he estimates that he spends 40 minutes each day.

About the video the subject has posted on the website YouTube, he says that it is a propaganda video for the less intellectual ones. He believes that anyone who watches the video must use the pause button actively. The subject wonders if the experts have seen the video and ask what the experts think about it.

The subject confirms using the name Andrew Berwick when uploading the film to the net. He did this ​​to avoid attention from the police or PST. He says that he has actively chosen music by Helene Bøksle, who sings in the old Norwegian language. He says: It is martyr music. Very Norwegian. Battle Music. In a process where you fight to the death, there is very little that will fit, so I used Helene Bøksle and the group SAGA. The music helps to preserve morale.

The subject adds that he has used the same music in order to preserve morale since he did not have access to other cells. He believes the music is well suited to displace anxiety, and says: For battle purposes, where you most likely will die, the songs can be used pragmatically to repress fear of death and preserve morale.

The subject believes that he has now tested and proven that the music works as intended. The anxiety and the fear of death were not that strong. It is proven by my example. He adds: Many on Utøya got fear of death, and froze. It often happens in war.

In the film, the Battle of Thermopylae is mentioned. The experts ask what this is supposed to illustrate. The subject says: It is an exceptional example. A small group of militant nationalists stood against a large Persian army. We are today’s Leonidas. Although we are a group with the odds against us, we can win.

The subject says that the historical examples he has used are pure propaganda, they justify our struggle, and have great symbolic power. He smiles. Militant nationalists like the movie, it is being related to our «struggle». He asks again if the experts liked the movie.

About his physical health, the subject initially says that he does not have, or have had a physical illness. He denies ever having had any head injury, episodes of unconsciousness or convulsions.

The subject says he has never been investigated for, or have been diagnosed with diabetes, heart disease or high blood pressure.

The subject has, apart from one day’s admission to a hospital in Oslo because of the mumps when he was very small, never been hospitalized or received treatment from any part of the specialist services.

The subject says he has had the same doctor for a number of years. The doctor is located at XXXXX. He has rarely had contact with this doctor over the past few years, but mentions that he has a few prescribed allergy medications. He confirms to have had telephone contact with the doctor in April 2011 and says that he took contact because of suspicion of a respiratory infection.

About his mental health, the subject starts off by saying he has a very strong psyche. He can not even report any mental health problems or some mental difficulties, apart from what he describes as declining fighting morale, expressed in percentages after his imprisonment on 22 July 2011.

The experts then systematically go through, and ask specifically about if the subject ever in life has had explicit, psychiatric symptoms. The subject is informed that the questions are standardized, and that some of them may not be appropriate for his situation. The results are used to fill out the MINI Plus and SCID I.

The subject says he has never experienced periods of depression or sadness. He says he probably has experienced adversity and problems, but has regarded it as learning. The subject also denies ever having experienced periods of more than two weeks with feelings of guilt, shame, guilt of any significance, lack of initiative, decreased appetite, inner tension, concentration difficulties, experienced joylessness or pessimistic thoughts.

The subject says that in a period of just over one year, from 2005 to- 2007, he turned the day around, and had a changed sleeping pattern. His explanation is that he in the same period was working extremely much. In addition, he played computer games on the Internet and the games took place at night.

About his sleeping pattern now, the subject says he is sleeping well. He gets up at seven, and goes to bed at 2100 hours. He believes that going to bed early is a survival strategy. In the recent weeks he has slept up to 12 to 14 hours a day. I’m in hibernation mode, he says.

When asked, he says he has never had thoughts of suicide, but confirms persistent thoughts about his own death by martyrdom, and other’s deaths by fair executions. He adds that he for a few seconds during the criminal acts on Utøya wondered whether he should take his life, but that he stuck to his oath and plan, and dropped it. He adds: We are not allowed to commit suicide.

When questioned, the subject denies that he has ever had a period of one week or more with experienced euphoria or mood elevation. When asked, he also denies ever having experienced augmented pace of movement or speech, irritability, perceived thinking or thought flight, or increased feelings of aggression. When asked whether he in any period of life has experienced increased sexual interest, the subject laughs and says: Since 2002 it has been immoral for me to enter into any relationship. Hasn’t happened much.

The subject said that he for short moments has experienced boosts of pleasure. He believes that these moments happen as a result of his good routines. He also believes that he can manipulate his thoughts into a kind of meditation, which is what makes it possible to be a sleeper cell.

The subject denies that such moments of pleasure have been of a sustained quality. He says: There may be two cycles in a week, lasting from a few seconds to a full day. The subject says that in such moments, he feels extremely inspired, feels fantastic. The contents of these thoughts is usually related to the subject’s roles in the future, alliance partners or relationships with friends and acquaintances. The subject laughs and adds: XXXXXXX, I wonder what they are saying now.

He says he is generally happy with himself and his own thoughts.

The subject denies when questioned, to ever have experienced anxiety or panic.

When asked, the subject confirms having witnessed an extremely traumatic episode. He says that he on 22 July 2011 saw a lot of people die and was not sure if he would survive himself. The subject denies having experienced intense fear, helplessness or horror during the experience. He denies having had dreams about the incident afterwards, and he has not tried to avoid talking about it. He does not experience physical discomfort associated with thinking back on the events. He says: I am proud of the operation and managed to keep fear and anxiety under control.

Regarding psychotic symptoms, the subject confirms experiencing imminent danger for his own and other’s lives. He justifies this by the ongoing low-intensity jihad, which puts the Norwegian culture and Norwegian population at risk. He adds: We must be saved from an Islamic caliphate with Sharia laws. The subject becomes very enthusiastic and verbose. It will stop the advances in research, literature and philosophy. We will be stuck in the middle ages if the Muslims seize power. The Norwegian indigenous population will be wiped out. Marxist women do not see it as their mission to bear children.

The experts ask if the subject feels persecuted. He confirms this, and says: We are a persecuted minority. Can not talk to the neighbors, it smells in the stairways, we are at risk of being laughed at and called nasty things by a Muslim gang in the streets.

The subject goes back to talking in we form. Our sisters are raped and our people are assaulted. Yes, we in the resistance movement believe that the Norwegian people are being persecuted and killed. Enclaves will grow like cancer. Norwegians will have to move from Grorud to Oslo West, and then on to Bærum. We will end up cornered, maybe in Vestfold or in Northern Norway. The epicenter of the cancer is Islam in Oslo.

The subject confirms grandiose, psychotic ideas in that he sees himself as the near perfect knight who is to ensure recruitment and victory in Europe by his written work and the criminal acts. The subject says he will contribute to recreate a kingdom in Norway.

The subject says that he is able to do everything because his knowledge data base is so large. He believes he was ignorant before he turned 21, but that his combination of intelligence, initiative, and principles have transformed him from being ordinary to being brilliant.

The subject says he has 15,000 hours of study equivalent to 9 years of university education. This has made ​​him exceptional in some areas. The subject says: I made 1 million before I was 24 and six million before I was 26. And together with the operation, this makes me very pleased.

The subject repeats as he has previously said: It is terrible that Norway is in civil war. But I know that 600,000 Norwegians sympathize. 50% of the police sympathize with us, too. In the ideological battle, 100,000 Norwegians regard me as a national hero.

The subject confirms thoughts about killing a large number of people. He explains that if the A and B traitors do not surrender and make concessions by 2020, it will come to a cruel revenge. He says in that case, both the 4,500 A and B traitors, and the tens of thousands of C-traitors will be executed.

The subject says: The Norwegian people will be saved. It is conceivable that the D traitors, union leaders, chief of police Killengreen, fire chiefs, and industry leaders must be executed.

The subject says that this last group is called the nomenclature. He adds: Those are all the intellectuals, apart from the new elite of the Crusaders. The nomenclature includes people in their positions, also yourselves (referring to the experts, experts’ note). The subject emphasizes that a final decision it has not yet been made as to what to do with this group, which may include as many as 200,000 people.

The subject denies ever having heard voices, sounds or other sound phenomena of any quality. He does however confirm, while we are at the subject, that he holds about 2% of the information secret. This includes details of his communications with others. The subject says he can not say anything about how this is happening, or with whom, but adds: It may have been physical communication or online.

He adds: Have promised to keep certain things secret. At the meeting in 2002, where we, the Knights Templar order was founded, ten people met, there were two who could not come. The puritan conditions of single cells started after the last contact. We must have the possibility for self-motivation without «pep talks» from others. I do not want to say something about what is secret.

The subject said he was afraid of sounds the first time he lived on the farm Åsta east. It was windy, there was a lot of squeaking, but it had to do with the house being so old.

The subject confirms having received messages in code, through cryptology. He thinks there has been very little of it and that he does not know a lot about it, but he knows enough to set up a digital algorithm.

The experts ask whether he has received messages directly addressed to him, through newspapers, radio, television or the Internet. The subject answers: Can not say anything about it, unfortunately. The subject laughs and smiles. He adds: Maybe there is some evidence already. Have told the police too much. There are «leads» in the interrogations. He adds: The author Fjordman writes a lot between the lines, but everybody understands it. It is not aimed specifically at me.

The experts ask if the subject has felt exposed to radiation. He replies: Yes, there has been radiation anxiety, but I have not exposed myself to any radiation sources.

The subject denies to ever have believed to be poisoned by food or drink. He says: I eat all kinds of food.

The experts ask if it is correct that he at times took the food his mother made ​​into his own room, and ate alone. He confirms this, but says: I picked up the food and ate alone to avoid getting infected. I let my mother smoke alone on the balcony, and did not go out to her. He also confirms to have used face masks before, but believes that this only lasted a short period in April 2011.

The subject denies having experienced qualitative changes related to sight, smell or taste.

The subject denies having experienced any subjective changes of his own thought processes, learning ability, or ability to concentrate.

The subject is asked if he has experienced changes related to his own appearance or body. He answers that he has not. The experts ask if it is true that he has adjusted his own appearance by plastic surgery. When I was 20, I did a «nose job», he says, and justifies this by saying that his nose was crooked.

I had some cartilage removed. In retrospect, I have regarded this as stupid, had a great Nordic nose, while the one I have now is not original.

The subject confirms that he recently has considered to fix four teeth in the lower jaw because they are a little crooked. I wanted to get closer to society’s ideals, he says. The subject adds: I thought that since I was to become a martyr, I wanted to get closer to the ideal. He says that all investment in his own appearance was related to thoughts of how he would be perceived at martyrdom.

The experts note that the subject’s mother has stated that the subject was more than usually preoccupied with his own appearance a few months before the criminal acts. I think she probably remembers correctly, the subject says. My mother was worried, I did not like that she was suspicious, and this may have been said to distract her. It was a good «cover», he adds, laughing.

The subject confirms that he has had thoughts about possible wiretapping of his phone since the end of 2009. The last half year before the criminal acts, he has also had a suspicion of possibly being monitored with surveillance cameras. He has searched for, but has not found surveillance equipment where he was staying.

About his consumption of drugs, it appears that the subject has never tried or used the psychoactive substances amphetamine, hashish, ecstasy, cocaine, heroin or benzodiazepines. He also has no experience with the substances LSD or GHB.

The subject says that he has smoked marijuana twice, around the turn of the year 2010/2011, and in May 2011.

The subject says that he first drank alcohol when he was 15 years old. He says: Later the consumption has been below average. He estimates an intake of alcohol once or twice a week until I was twenty, then every other week.

Since 2006, I have only been drinking three or four times a year, he says. He believes to have consumed a bottle of wine at each occasion, in social events.

The last nine months before the criminal acts, the subject says that he only has been drinking alcohol a few times, because he did not want to drink when he was using steroids.

The subject says that he smokes five cigarettes a day, and uses dipping tobacco once or twice a day.

The subject says he has used ECA-stack at some occasions. He explains that this is a mixture of ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin that is no longer on the market. The subject says that the mixture increases performance by 50% in a two hour period.

The subject says he has studied the topic ECA stack combined with steroids. He bought it over the counter the first time in Sweden in his early twenties. From 2002 to 2005, while he was working, he estimates his consumption to about 20 capsules per year. From 2006 to 2011 it has been much less. The subject says: It can be about 60 capsules throughout my whole life.

The subject says he took a total of six capsules during the past five days before the criminal acts. The last capsule he took at 14:30 hours on 22 July 2011.

About the use of anabolic steroids, the subject explains himself completely in line with information given to the experts in the sixth conversation. The information is therefore not repeated here.

Current status by both experts on 20 September 2011

The subject is awake, in clear consciousness, and aware of time and place and situation. Intelligence clinically assessed to be in the normal range. The subject uses numerical values ​​and percentages to a greater extent than is common in regular speech. He uses a technical, unemotional and not very dynamic language in the conversation.

He appears emotionally shallow, with complete emotional distance to his own situation and to the experts. He is polite, and cooperates to the best of his ability. He laughs and smiles quite often, when related to issues concerning his own individual significance and/or his actions.

The subject has a light glaring look and blinks a lot. He appears with a somewhat reduced facial expression, and a somewhat rigid body language as he moves very little in the chair during the hours the conversation lasts.

The subject is unable to take his victims’, society’s or anyone else’s perspective. He can not describe or recognize his own or others’ feelings. The phenomenon is considered as a serious empathy failure, alexithymia, and egocentricity. He appears with a prominent emotional flattening.

He uses unusual terms as commander, military judgment seat, martial music, capitulate, and «struggle». The terminology used is entirely linked to the subject’s notion that there is a civil war going on in the country, and is considered as expressions of underlying, paranoid delusions.

In conversation, the subject uses the term to martyr oneself and national hero about himself and his tasks, believing that hundreds of thousands of Norwegians look at him like that. He compares himself with the historical war hero Leonidas. The terminology used is entirely linked to subject’s notion that he qualifies as a hero through his actions on 22 July 2011. The terminology used is considered as an expression of underlying, grandiose delusions.

The subject sees himself as a near perfect knight, who will ensure recruitment and victory in Europe and recreate the kingdom of Norway through his written work and criminal actions. He believes that he has changed from ordinary to brilliant since he was 21 years old. The ideas are considered as grandiose delusions.

The subject confirms ideas about monitoring and surveillance. He has considered himself exposed to infection and has been afraid of radiation, but without any known radiation source. He has been particularly afraid of infection. He has used a face mask indoors and consulted his GP about this. The phenomena are considered to be paranoid delusions.

The subject believes he belongs to a persecuted minority. He believes that the Norwegian people is persecuted and killed. He thinks that Norway is in a state of civil war. He believes that there is an imminent danger to his own and others’ lives. The ideas are considered an all encompassing, paranoid delusional system.

Auditory hallucinations and possible influence phenomena cannot be confirmed, since the subject maintains that his forms of communication with like-minded persons are secret.

The subject appears to have an unclear identity feeling, as he switches between describing himself in the singular and plural.

The subject makes several threats during the conversation. He says that if the ones he refers to as A and B traitors do not surrender and make concessions by the year 2020, at a certain point there will be a cruel revenge. He says it will lead to executions of up to 200,000 people. The ideas are considered as extensive, homicidal thoughts.

The experts have sometimes had difficulty in following the subject. In parts of the conversation, he is exhibiting a moderate association disorder and formal thought disorder in the form of perseveration. There is no latency or thought block during the conversation.

The subject appears without depressive thoughts in the form of guilt, shame, hopelessness, or thoughts about his own death by suicide. He denies experiencing sadness, joylessness, reduced initiative or lack of initiative. There is thus no evidence of a depressed mood.

The subject does not exhibit increased psychomotorical tempo, or perceived high mood. The subject’s speech is coherent and with normal syntax. He has no mind or voice strain. He is «affect stable». There is no evidence of lack of impulse control, neither verbally nor physically. There is thus no evidence of a high mood.

The subject appears without clinical suspicion of intoxication. The subject denies having suicidal thoughts or plans.

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